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I was so honored to be invited to speak about my new book Invisible on Diana Butler Bass’ podcast, Secret Garden. You can join her substack to hear the full interview. Below is an excerpt from the podcast.

You can listen to an excerpt on youtube

Please buy the book and review it or rate it on Amazon and other places.

Diana Butler Bass writes in her newsletter, The Cottage:

“On election day, I interviewed a guest for an upcoming podcast, theologian and author Grace Ji-Sun Kim. We talked about her new book Invisible on the experiences of Asian-American women in religion. Not surprisingly, the conversation leaned into politics. Grace pointed out,

“We are such diverse people . . . we have points of intersection and points of difference. . . We should never go into this Olympics of oppression, (we) should all be in solidarity to help one another. . . We need to hear one another’s stories and lift each other up.”

And, the converse is also true. She continued, that when we press one another down, “we wind up hating one another. . . When we work toward welcoming everybody . . . we can be less afraid of each other and be open and more loving.”

She’s right, of course. Jesus calls us to lift one another up, to recognize that each life is a gift. In short, solidarity — learning to live gratefully for and with others — is the cure for fear.

Fear may motivate voters in the short run. But fear twists us, it makes us sick, breaks our connections with others, and it even shortens our lives. One of the worst changes in American society since 9/11 is the capitulation to fear-based politics and media in every arena of our social lives. Where once Americans feared Russia or The Bomb, we now fear school board meetings. That’s patently ridiculous, people. Honestly, I want to scream: Get a grip! When we turn each other into evil creatures, we’ve failed as human beings.

As Grace reminded me, we live in a world of genuine differences — and differences aren’t bad, they are just different. Solidarity — holding one another, and even holding our fears — is a way forward.”

You can also listen to the excerpt of the interview on Spreaker:


Diana Butler Bass was my first guest on Madang podcast hosted by Christian Century. Listen to her share about her newest book, Freeing Jesus.

Subscribe to my Youtube and watch all the Madang podcast interviews.